Re: Here’s a pretty popular debate…

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@DWORD wrote:

I think that a pretty general way to summarize the biblical take on alcohol is that you shouldn’t ‘abuse’ it…

There are also those who believe that these are simply ‘The Rules’ or that to be a ‘Good’ person or christian is to never drink.

The bottom line is, While understanding the consequences, mind-altering substances are NEVER an excuse for negative behaviors, poor decisions, or lack of self-respect. Cultural/lawful acceptance should never supersede moral or biblical standards.

Well put. And again – the main post of this thread was about anyone drinking. My posts were more about pastors/deacons/etc. Hopefully I’m not confusing things.

alexw wrote:
titus and timothy references are for the qualifications of deacons and elders, not pastors or bishops.

In the greek it actually says “overseer” – it doesn’t actually give the “title”, but more of a job description.

@alexw wrote:

remember, it wasnt written to you. it was written to the 1st century church leaders (pastors) as a guide to establish a quality leadership in the congregation.

Maybe not, but it was written FOR me. ;)

2 Tim 3:16 (KJV)
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

I don’t believe that scripture ever gets “stale” or was only for a specific generation. I don’t know if that is what you were implying, but if it was, then it is a non-scriptural view.

As far as the word “wine”, on further study the Greek doesn’t actually use the word wine. It uses a word similar to “drunkard” – and in that context, I have to take back what I said. It is refering to “loosing control”, not that they are to have “no wine” (swing and a miss for Don ;) )

To what I think alexw was getting at (if I understand where you were going)… we do have to be careful about “proof-texting” – which is where you take a verse out of context to mean what you want. I agree whole-heartedly. It’s true that the Bible trumps everything else, but to take a single verse and distort it to mean what you want is wrong. The Word of God is right even if it’s uncomfortable, painful, or inconvienient.