Re: Is Baptism Important?

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@Josiah Fingaz wrote:

“…They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father….”
St. Ignatius i.e. the Apostle John’s disciple

So, now, I have to believe in transubstantiation to go to Heaven? This is getting to be a long list of requirements. ;)

@Josiah Fingaz wrote:

If communion is only a symbol then why would it have an adverse effect on people when they took it unworthily?

Because they were abusing it and making a mockery of it. They’d turned a reminder of Christ’s love and sacrifice into a gluttonous, self-centered feast:

So then, when you come together, it is not the Lord’s Supper you eat, for when you are eating, some of you go ahead with your own private suppers. As a result, one person remains hungry and another gets drunk. Don’t you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God by humiliating those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you? Certainly not in this matter! 1 Corinthians 11:20-22

And the purpose of God’s actions against the abusers is made clear in verse 32:

Nevertheless, when we are judged in this way by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be finally condemned with the world.

God was disciplining them so that they wouldn’t be condemned, not to condemn them.

@Josiah Fingaz wrote:

And the baptism for the dead is cleary stated in the scripture. I don’t fully understand how that works but I don’t think you can word play around it.

I don’t see it as “word play”. I see it as looking closely at what Paul said. I would assume that God, when inspiring Paul to write the Scriptures, would have Paul use the correct words. He’s speaking of a third party. We’re not even given clear indication of whether those being spoke of were even Christians. If baptism for the dead is the only way to heaven for those who placed their faith in Christ but died before having a chance to be baptized, you’d think that Paul would place very strong emphasis on it, rather than a two-sentence passing reference to the practice in which he never even clearly advocates the practice, but only acknowledges its practice.

@Josiah Fingaz wrote:

But for those of us, myself included, that have had teachings from protestant belief systems only will see this scripture in our rose tinted glasses of our own persuasion.

So, we’re simply victims of our protestant brainwashing? Seems a handy way to do a blanket dismissal of all opinion contrary to your own.

@Josiah Fingaz wrote:

However, we are called to partake of the Lord’s Supper as often as we meet as believers.

Question: I met with a friend–a fellow believer and a pastor–for breakfast this morning. Should we have taken communion? We were believers meeting together. Or were we not meeting “as believers” but just as two friends? We did actually spend most of the 90 minutes discussing theology. So, does that make us “as believers” and we sinned by not having communion? Or were we just two guys chatting over coffee? How do we tell the difference between a communion gathering and a non-communion gathering?

@Josiah Fingaz wrote:

Recieve of His Body and Blood which is medicine for your soul. Receive it in great humbleness for you have still sinned after your baptism.

Wait a sec…. So, are you saying that baptism forgives my sins up until the point when I am baptized but then I do communion to be forgiven of sins committed after that point? I always thought….

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

Shouldn’t John have mentioned communion there? And what happens if I’ve sinned since the last time that I’ve had communion, confessed and repented, but haven’t had communion again? Is that another loophole for God to use to send me to Hell? If so, where’s the confidence in our salvation? Where’s the “good news” in the Gospel?

Man, these requirements are getting complicated. Makes you wonder if Jesus really knew what He was talking about when He held up children as an example of how we are to be.

@Josiah Fingaz wrote:

Do not cast it away flipantly, for in doing so you reject Christ Himself!

Now it seems that, because I disagree with you, I am being flippant (“frivolously disrespectful, shallow, or lacking in seriousness”) and rejecting Christ??? I’m accepting Christ. I’m just accepting that my acceptance of His work for me on the cross is sufficient and complete for my salvation. I have been baptized. I solemnly and thoughtfully take communion at church when it is held. I see both as important. Yet, I’m flippant because I don’t see them as having power to save me?