Canadian Christian Dance ministry featured in documentary
May 31, 2009 at 4:18 am #20935
SoundMinistry (Christian EMD ministry I used to be involved with in Toronto, Canada) featured in the first few minutes of a documentary on new movements of Canadian evangelicals that was broadcast nation-wide on mainstream TV (like our version of… uhhh… abc?)
So its a totally secular documentary, but very open minded towards Christians (any way the word gets out!) Gotta warn you it does a lot of comparing Canadian and Americans, and different denominations but this is secular media, and its coming from that point of view. Nathan Gerber, who is featured in the doc had also had some good things to say about a visiting American Youth Ministy, but didnt get on film. But very fair treatment over-allJune 1, 2009 at 2:50 am #28802
Just watched it, great stuff there! Very fairly done, unlike a lot of American media on Christians. Cool stuff.June 1, 2009 at 5:30 pm #28803
This is a great documentary that shows evangelical world of I will do what I want mentality. The pastor broke away from the church to start his own church, but who gave him the authority to be a pastor, so basically anyone who does not agree with his church can open his own church and be a pastor, what is heresy then?June 1, 2009 at 10:54 pm #28804
yes I also thought it was a bit odd how he had to “brake away” from his previous denomination in order to “do church differently”. First, if all the doctrine/core beliefs are the same, why fuss so much over the outward appearance of how you do a service or whatever? (singificant point for us doing edm oriented stuff) And when launching some new kind of ministry or church, its best to do it in a way that promotes unity and understanding. Christians have often created new things/churches/ministries to “counter” what other Christians do, and I have heard a lot of people go on about “some churches do this, and some churches do that, but we do this” and it kinda gets old. As apposed to “countering” whats already been done, its a good attitude to see this as “adding” to what was before in a way that promotes unity (not talking about adding doctrine or beliefs). Plus, its a bad vibe to people new to Christianity and church altogether, as a) they don’t know or care what other churches do yet b) this is not an example of Chrisitan love , i.e. “they will know we are Christians by our love”.
the “some churches do this, and some churches do that, but we do this” speech is only for the converted and too much of that focus can turn people who are not Christians yet, away from it.June 1, 2009 at 11:03 pm #28805
but other than that I thought the documentary very good, I think it showed some very positive things happening. Most of the other people in this documentary, Nathan Gerber and Sound Ministry (the Christian “rave”) etc.. were starting these new things under the blessing of the church they are currently under – i know this because I know them personally.
And DJFfaith, the Canadian media usually roasts us too! But i see what you mean, the Dailey show and Colbert Report talk-shows seem particularly anti God.June 2, 2009 at 1:25 pm #28806
The best way you can show Christian love is to submit yourself to the authority of the elders of your church. If you agree with your church’s teachings, you have to became a servant to your brothers. Splitting the church is not showing Christian love. So that guy needs to learn love first, then maybe he can be a pastor.June 2, 2009 at 1:31 pm #28807
The best way you can show Christian love is to submit yourself to the authority of the elders of your church. If you agree with your church’s teachings, you have to became a servant to your brothers. Splitting the church is not showing Christian love. So that guy needs to learn love first, then maybe he can be a pastor.
i agree to dima with the submission thing. this is something that in the past ive had trouble doing but am learning too. i think it helps when you are placed under a really great pastoral team too though.June 3, 2009 at 4:09 pm #28808
I see we’re heading into the spiritual discussion end of it here, but I just wanted to say that Fezzik answered it thoughtfully and beautifully.
Dima has good points, but we need to remember that ‘church’ is a human institution of organized religion… and sometimes, views and opinions rule these institutions… not love.
If your pastor and the congregation said that dance music should not be a tool for outreach what would you do? Submit?
I’ve just gone through an ordeal as a deacon on the board at my own church and the instigators were told to do things as biblical as possible: Write a formal letter to the board indicating your grievance, and sign it. Cannot be anonymous (and must be a legitimate member). The board will read it at their next meeting, perhaps inviting them to participate. The board will decide what actions to take. If the party disagrees, then they should respectfully and quietly leave the congregation WITHOUT disrupting the assembly and splitting the church.
In the example I gave above where perhaps the pastor says dance music is not to be used for any ministry purposes, one should pray about it, and be ready to leave the church quietly and peacefully in love. Starting a new church in the same town that would cannibalize from the other church membership is wrong. It’s important to realize that just because the pastor and his board may be ideologically wrong concerning dance music, they are NOT WRONG in steering their church the way they want (their vision may have different goals and paths to get there). This is what makes different churches and different denominations, and we all know that Baptists and Pentecostals are all going to be on the same bus together in heaven. Differences in non-fundamental doctrine aren’t worth squabbling over.June 3, 2009 at 5:04 pm #28809
I know some people may not like this but……… “membership” of a church is a pagan practice. They would form alliances to their particular temple. In Roman times, Constantine decided Christians needed to form the same alliances to which building they would attend so as to not overcrowd one particular building. At that time Christians only met in homes and in the streets, they had no “buildings”. The pagans had temples throughout all of Rome, so Constantine decided he would build better looking buildings than the pagans. So he gave them pues, nice looking windows, fancy alters, Robes, etc. He did that so it would be better than the pagan temples. He built these Christian churches right accross the street from the pagan temples so people would see that the Christians were better than the pagans by their buildings.
Im not saying you shouldnt be a member of a church but in my opinion most churches practices of “membership” is ridiculous. If you look up membership or member in the bible, here are the verses (New Testament)
1Cor 6:15 – Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself?
Eph 4:25 – ………, for we are all members of one body.
Col 3:15 – Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace.
Why do we need to form an alliance to a particular church or denomination? From those verses, forming these alliances with a denomination or “building” seems wrong, and not what God intended. The bible never speaks of submitting yourself to the church, it says the church submits to Christ. It even talks about submitting the the law of the land (authorities), but never the church. The “church” was never supposed to be a place of authority and power (that was the Pharisees, and Jesus spoke against that)
My alliance is with Jesus and I should be free to go where ever I want to worship and pray.June 3, 2009 at 6:59 pm #28810
I know some people may not like this The bible never speaks of submitting yourself to the church, it says the church submits to Christ. It even talks about submitting the the law of the land (authorities), but never the church. The “church” was never supposed to be a place of authority and power (that was the Pharisees, and Jesus spoke against that)
The Bible speaks about submitting yourself to the elders.
“Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.” Hebrews 13:17
The elders can only be ordained, they cannot ordain themselves:
“And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed”. Acts 14:23June 3, 2009 at 8:54 pm #28811
Your right Dimtri. I agree there are leaders that we submit to. “Submit yourselves to one another”. Like, elders (people) that we have placed there because of their faith.June 4, 2009 at 12:49 pm #28812
So what is your definition of “pagan”?
Membership to a church is not a pagan rite despite origins or its uses in other religions. The book of ACTS is clear that we are to be in unity with one another as a body of believers, and Constantine likely got his ideas from the ‘first’ churches in the letters found in Acts. Unfortunately, as I pointed out above, CHURCH (as an organization) is a human intervention/invention and whenever man gets involved in ‘organizing’ anything it means there are laws, rules and people in charge. Membership is the ONLY way that a body of believers can be protected by law in a democratic society. Think about it. Your church has a constitution. It has a belief statement. It adheres to this for the sake of everyone’s best interest. And having this is a formal process by which you can benchmark a company’s or a church’s actions. Voting and carrying out official business still needs to ‘get done’ by your church. Who controls where and how your ministry givings and offerings get spent!? YOU DO. But U.S. and Canada law says that any ‘organization’ must have a legal way of doing this, and so my friends… we have to have official MEMBERSHIP as a way of proving what the church says and does. Membership is the ‘legitimizer’ in any organization.
So… if you actually CARE about the body you’re a part of, I beg of you to go ask for your church’s constitution and read it thoroughly… then add your name to the membership list. YOUR COUNTRY ..er…CHURCH NEEDS YOU! To me, if you’re not a member, you’re a ‘taker’… a ‘leach’. Clearly not the ideal we see in Acts, right? No disrespect, or offense meant. I just see how this thinking is predominant among church-goers. Often the most vocal people in my church against new ideas and vision are those with no membership. If you want a voice in your church, become a member. THEN you can ‘legally’ begin to do things properly. Otherwise, a person is simply a trouble-maker. Again, just wanted to point out how the ‘evolution’ of ‘church’ in modern society underscores the NEED for membership in order to maintain a smoothly operating church.June 4, 2009 at 4:54 pm #28813
I just want to say, I LOVE talking about this stuff. I learn from everyone, appreciate everyones opinions and never think that I am right. I am more passionate about certain things and may debate my opinion a little more. I love to debate these things, and I feel if in prayer God can show me things about these discussions, then I am much better off from having these discussions. I love all of you guys, and will never put you down for having a different opinion.
I do attend multiple churches, I volunteer A LOT of my time to all of them, in different ways. But the Church that I have attended for many years does not have a membership. We do not require people to have to pledge allegance to us. People tithe to us as they see God requiring them, everyone but one person is a volunteer and they do it so passionately and with enthusiasm (not out of requirement), and almost everyone in our church is in small groups that are either formed by our church or other churches. We also have many people from other churches in our small groups. We like when people go out and get involved in many places, its part of us impacting our community. When you talk about unity, how is being apart of something that other believers are not, unity. Because I dont see how the body is in Unity now that way. Thats division, not unity. Its so much to the point that Catholics say if you are not Catholic, then you are not Christian. Other denominations are saying the same thing now. How far will it go?
When you read in Genisis, the story of Cain and Abel, after Cain kills Abel, it goes in to the geneology of Cain, it describes all the things that his descendants invented. (tents, tools, raising livestock, instraments and pipes, etc) In the geneology of Adam (and his son Seth) it talks about a lot of people but never talks about anything they invented or really did. Well Cain’s descendants had to live “outside the presence of God”……..so they built a system. They built these things so they didnt have to depend on God, because they couldnt. What are the things they we have put in place because we are not willing to depend on God. What is our system?June 4, 2009 at 5:28 pm #28814
When you read in Genisis, the story of Cain and Abel, after Cain kills Abel, it goes in to the geneology of Cain, it describes all the things that his descendants invented. (tents, tools, raising livestock, instraments and pipes, etc)
Interesting observationJune 4, 2009 at 5:49 pm #28815
Also read 1 Cor 1:10 – Those are denominations that hes talking about. I follow Paul, no I follow Peter…….no I follow this church, no I follow that church.
In chapter 3 he says that we will only be fed milk and not solid foods as long as we live worldly like this, we are not ready for the real things God has for us.
We are missing out!
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